Making a Documentary
Michael Reynolds sent me an e-mail asking me whether I wanted to be involved in a project he’s a part of. The project:
This April I’ll be in London, Paris, Madrid and either Amsterdam or Copenhagen with a documentary film crew. I’m looking for interview subjects to talk about attitudes toward the US, the Iraq war, and the question of whether or not we are in a clash of civilizations with Islam.
Of course I would love to be a part of this project, of this documentary, so I happily agreed. However, he is still looking for other Europeans as well:
The essential requirement is that the participant be 1) not an American, 2) able to discuss complex subjects in understandable English. I’m looking for locals, age and gender irellevant, though we have a particular need for Muslims.
We are also looking for venues — cafes, apartment, dorm rooms — where we can shoot.
Anyone who has useful suggestions please email me at mtakhallus (at) mac (dot) com. Put CWTE in the subject line.
This subject truly is fascinating and I think that spending more attention to it, now through a documentary, is absolutely necessary. If Europe and the U.S. want to continue being ‘friends’ and if they want to effectively fight the problems of today, we should understand each other. In order to understand each other, we must communicate with each other.
Here is the company that will shoot the documentary: Taproot Productions.
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49 Responses to “Making a Documentary”
“a clash of civilizations”
Uh-oh, this kind of codewording augurs not well. Anyone who would even consider a bunch of ragtag terrorists the equal of the Reds or Nazis, in terms of the above phrase needs their heads examined.
Actually, Dan, it is a question asked by many Europeans. You should not forget that the Muslim population of Western European countries, is much bigger – relatively – than the Muslim population in the U.S. There are a lot of problems with immigrants who refuse to integrate, let alone assimilate, politically ‘we’ differ on quite some issues, many Europeans are afraid of what some call (in the words of Geert Wilders) the “Islamization” of Europe, etc.
Whether there is a ‘clash’ between civilizations, or just a ‘problem’… well, if they interview me, they’ll find out what I think about it.
Problems with violence by russian immigrants here in Germany, plus the disturbing right wing movement in Eastern Germany, are much more in the minds of ‘Otto Normalverbraucher’ (german for average Joe) than tensions with the muslim part of the population. That’s what I would tell the filmmakers if they would provide me with a rail ticket to Amsterdam or Copenhagen.
That’s interesting Gray. That’s not such a problem here. We’re really focused on the immigration / integration debate.
I realize yr point, Michael.
But, in 2005, alot of hay was made over the ridiculous Tery Schiavo BS here, as if most of the country gave a damn if some anorexic twit finally died. Few did, yet I’m sure those across the world thought our country was obsessed with it. The term I descibe used is another codeword for a mania that has little relevance. I’ve got some pals in the UK and other Euro counties who basically echo Gray’s point, that such a Clash is about # 57 on their list of Top 20 worries in the world.
Still, do you REALLY fear the Moslem loonies the way West Germans must have feared the Red Army over the border, or the way the Soviets feared the German invasion of Poland as an augury?
I mean, 9/11 and the subsequent attacks in London & Madrid were basically all caused by our weaknesses in intell, not their strength in #s nor smarts.
A decade from now, when there is a new ‘Global Thgreat’- be it a natural disaster ala Global Warming, or China flexing its muscles, most kids today will barely recall the War on Terror- no hiding under desks with alarms for possible nukes, etc, the way kids in the 50s & 60s recalled those days.
In short, conflations of this silliness w the World Wars is more hyperbole brought to you by the 24/7 McMartworld’s need for content, not any real threat.
“We’re really focused on the immigration / integration debate.”
Who isn’t? But since changes in legislation decisively reduced the number of immigrants seeking asylum, the problem with immigrants from the former soviet union has become more urgent. Idiotically, it is a long standing German law that everybody who has German ancestors can apply for citizenship, if he’s coming from a country where he faces discrimination because of his orgin (and all nations of the former Warzaw Pact were included in that group). Until the passing of a language test became obligatory in 2005, tens of thousands of russians immigrated, armed with dubious evidence that an ancestor was in fact a german shepherd or something like that.
The administration was responsible in assigning housing to those ‘Spätaussiedler’ (late resettlers), and sadly it lazily assigned large groups to a small number of villages. Of course, a group of russians, handicapped by language problems and equalling in number 15% of the population of those small towns is more than any region can handle. The job opportunities for the group were small, many of them already had alcohol problems when coming to Germany, so it was clear that this would lead to violent tensions. For the residents of the affected regions, this is a much more dire situation than any problems with muslim immigrants.
Cosmoetica: good point of course, but I think that the focus shouldn’t so much be, in this case, 9/11 and / or terrorist attacks in general, but the overall feeling… the general atmosphere.
“Is there a clash of civilizations?” I would change that into “is there a clash of cultures in Europe at this moment?” to create a different ‘feeling’ to it.
Gray, that’s not a big problem here right now, although I’m sure that it will become one very soon.
Cosmoetica:
I would beg that you not draw conclusions about a documentary which has not even been shot yet, let alone edited. The principals involved include a right winger, a centrist, and a leftie. No one is prejudging. And no one is out to make propaganda.
cosmoetica the so-called “clash of civilizations” may be low on their list, but if you change the subject to “immigration” you might find the rank goes up rather quickly. In Spain at least, immigration comes in either first or second consistently as the thing that most worries Spaniards. Certainly the “clash of civilizations” sounds rather theatrical. At least in Spain, the impression is that immigration is a problem per se, and immigration by the Muslim population carries the bonus of a culture that runs backwards to ours, especially as Europe seems to get the poorest, least educated and most conservative Muslims, the least likely to want to integrate.
Still, it seems to me that worries about immigrants run proportional to their numbers. South Americans, despite sharing our language and our traditional religion, cause about as much rejection and trouble as Arabs, due to sheer numbers. East Europeans are feared outright, as they are known here for their military style assault of families in their homes.
Well said.
Same here Lynx.
IMHO “clash of cultures” is far more appropos than “clash of civilizations.” The civilized parts of Islam aren’t an immediate problem, are they?
What M. Tak said. Even if I were to take for granted that the project was chasing a desired result (and I don’t) reviewing something before you’ve ever seen it is dishonest. Reviewing it and dismissing it before it’s even made is downright absurd.
“I’m sure that it will become one very soon.”
Yeah, when the people of former Warzaw Pact states become EU citizen. An EU citizen is legally allowed to settle in any nation belonging to the European Union. This may become a clash of civilisations (people from south-east europe are already known for the significantly higher representation in crime statistics), but one where not religion is the main problem. And I’m convinced that the violent struggles in France have more to do with the disregard for integration, than with the fact that most french arabs are muslim. Imho it wouldn’t change much if Algeria had been overwhelmingly christian. This whole brouhaha about the ‘clash with Islam’ (let’s be honest, that’s what that ‘civilisation’ stuff is about) is just a right wing talking point. All they want is raise fear about ‘Islamofascism’ (who’s afraid of the evil muslim?), in order to stear US foreign policy even further to the right.
“The principals involved include a right winger, a centrist, and a leftie. No one is prejudging. And no one is out to make propaganda.”
If the right winger is exclusively responsible for the final cut, you can be sure that this will be a propaganda piece. This whole idea about the ‘clash of civilisations’, with the obvious main focus on tensions with muslims, is actually a right wing talking point. If you let the right wingers provide the topic and the rules of engagement, you can be sure that the result will be twisted in their favor. Centrists and liberals shouldn’t give this project a fraudulent appeal of ‘neutral point of view’ by participating in this venture.
“Reviewing it and dismissing it before it’s even made is downright absurd.”
That was your opinion on the Iraq war, too?
It’s always better to warn people of probable problems instead of letting them try and error desastrously.
Gray, frankly, I think that you can’t just discount the venture just because YOU don’t think there is a “clash of civilizations”. I’m willing to bet plenty of centrists and liberals do believe it exists, though they probably differ on the causes/solutions. As I’ve said before the “clash of civilizations” does sound rather theatrical, and maybe it is a term invented by the right, I really don’t know. But even if the right invented the term, that doesn’t mean the issue doesn’t exist. I can garantee you that it does, and that the confrontation between conservative Islam and liberal Europe is acutly felt in some places. Remember Theo Van Gogh? What about that opera that changed it’s scenes to prevent posible violence from muslim extremists? Danish cartoons? What about hospitals being build according to Muslim law, so that women are treated by women and men by men, with PUBLIC money? Mind you, you can certainly disagree as to whether there is a threat or something good or something meaningless. But at least insofar as it IS something that worries many Europeans, it’s an issue and issues don’t go away because you refuse to speak of them.
Tully:
Thanks. One wonders why anyone bothers producing anything. Why not just get the reviews done before the piece is even conceived? Save everyone a lot of time and money.
Gray:
Please don’t lecture me when you have no idea what you’re talking about. The content of this film will be determined primarily by what people say to us. The editing process will be in the hands of a hawkish centrist, an anti-war leftie, and a professional cutter who as far as I know couldn’t care less about politics.
You are extrapolating from a single term I included without much thought. I didn’t choose my term with any particular care because I, unlike you, understand that we’re really just interested in seeing what people have to say. I know that sounds crazy to an ideologue, but we kind of just want to see what actual people have to say.
“I think that you can’t just discount the venture just because YOU don’t think there is a “clash of civilizationsâ€?.”
No, as I stated above, it’s mainly because I’m not at all convinced this isn’t a right wing trojan horse. ‘Taproot Productions’ obviously is a commercial company who will handle the technical aspects. This doesn’t say anything about the intentions and a possible bias of the final product. Who is behind this project? Most important, who is financing it? This is what I’d like to know and what everybody considering taking part should ask in the first place.
“Remember Theo Van Gogh? What about that opera that changed it’s scenes to prevent posible violence from muslim extremists? Danish cartoons?”
Singular incidents that have been blown up beyond every reasonable proportion.
“What about hospitals being build according to Muslim law, so that women are treated by women and men by men, with PUBLIC money?”
Never heard about this one. Where does it happen? And does that say you’re generally against every public financing of projects undertaken by religious groups? Good for you.
“Please don’t lecture me”
Not my intention. Imho most people will stubbornly ignore any problems with their pet projects anyhow. Like everybody else, I’m just stating my opinion here. That’s what comment threads are for.
“you have no idea what you’re talking about.”
And whose fault is the scarcity of informations? Mine?
“I know that sounds crazy to an ideologue, but we kind of just want to see what actual people have to say.”
Did it ever occur to you that using ‘clash of civilisations’ as a topic is already an ideological judgement? Why not simply use ‘Islam in the eyes of european citizen’ or something like that?
And if you want to get scientifically important data instead of only a handful of snapshots of randomn opinions, why not better conduct a poll in all european nations? Now this would really be an important project.
Gray, I think the hospital incident comes from the Netherlands, though I suppose Michael would know more about the subject. As far as public financing of religious projects, it depends. If a religious group wants to build a hospital open to all, that doesn’t impose it’s religious code, I think it’s like when any non-profit has such a project, if it’s good for the people, then if the government has means it should co-finance. But if it’s a muslim hospital imposing it’s religious worldview, just like if it were a catholic hospital imposing it’s, then that’s fine, go ahead, without my taxes, thank you.
Gray: you are the one who jumped to conclusions. The idea is quite clear to me: ask people questions… let them answer them.
This is not about enforcing an opinion… it’s about asking people their opinion.
Yes, they want that in the Netherlands. Muslim hospital. Public funds.
Absolutely ridiculous.
also: it was severely criticized. I have to see whether they will persist building it.
Gray:
Did it ever occur to you that using ‘clash of civilisations’ as a topic is already an ideological judgement? Why not simply use ‘Islam in the eyes of european citizen’ or something like that?
Oy.
As I explained, I wasn’t parsing my phraseology. I was writing a post trying to recruit particpants. I’m not interested in political correctness, I want good interviews with people of strong opinions. Because if I don’t get that I don’t have a documentary, all I have is an exhausting trip running around Europe.
I love Gray’s assertion that only RIGHT wingers engage in propaganda. LMAO.
“This is not about enforcing an opinion… it’s about asking people their opinion.”
As soon as you have to drop some statements out of the movie because of time limits, the movie becomes judgmental, this can’t be avoided. And I think it is a valid question how good the movie can be at providing a true picture of the opinion in these countries. After all, a handfull of filmed statements can’t be anywhere close to a poll that at least shows the margin of error. And further questions arise when you take into consideration the fact that this project started four years ago. I hope this doesn’t say that there’s already footage from 2002 that will be used in that project. For god’s sake, remember everything that happened in those years!
And if the person will respond like Gray does… it will be put in the documentary as well, right? That’s the idea. Even provocative questions, Gray, result in different answers.
“I’m not interested in political correctness, I want good interviews with people of strong opinions. Because if I don’t get that I don’t have a documentary”
Quite to the contrary. If you use only the “interviews with people of strong opinions”, you present a distorted picture. That’s not a documentary, that’s more like infotainment. Kind of Borat, but without the fun.
“Yes, they want that in the Netherlands. Muslim hospital. Public funds.
Absolutely ridiculous.”
Indeed. Muslim hospital, ok, but then they should raise the funds by themselves. I wonder that this kind of public financing of a rligiously motivated project is legal under the constitution of the Netherlands.
“And if the person will respond like Gray does… it will be put in the documentary as well, right?”
Imho if you want to do a real documentary, you should conduct polls in those countries first, and then chose the interviews accordingly, so that you can present an overview of the public opinion represented by real people. This would result in a documentary with scientific value.
It is not (considered to be) unconstitutional.
Yes, I agree.
Our laws should be changed in my opinion.
nonsense. It’s a documentary, not a poll filmed.
(although I cannot speak for the ones who are going to make it of course, but that’s how I see it)
Gray:
Actually, we were there in spring of 2003 and what there is is a lot of footage of Europeans warning me that Iraq would be a disaster. A lot of it makes me look rather silly.
What we are after is good video. In the first round of filming I had several people really stick a knife in me. We actually love that stuff. I’ve considered using slo-mo to highlight the times I get nailed because, as we say in one of our tag lines, we believe in the combat of ideas. If I were filming you and you made a good point that’s what would get the clip included. It’s not about me, it’s about the people we talk to, and about the issues, and hopefully a bit of wit and intelligence.
Gray:
Um, dude? It’s not a science project.
“I love Gray’s assertion that only RIGHT wingers engage in propaganda. LMAO.”
Hey, afaik I didn’t say that the result of a left winger producing a documentary wouldn’t likely be propaganda, too. It’s just that I’m somehow more concerend about the right side’s actions.
“It’s not a science project.”
Indeed, indeed. But a “Documentary film is a broad category of cinematic expression united by the attempt, in one fashion or another, to “document” reality” (that’s what Wiki sez). Well, it already would be difficult to document the reality of public opinion by going out in the street and asking everybody who comes along. But with the method of interviewing people who were chosen beforehand, it will be almost impossible to give a picture of ‘reality’. It will just reflect reality as you observe it. Well, maybe that’s good enough for you.
“What we are after is good video.”
Wll, at least it will be interesting, especially if you focus on the ‘before and after’ aspect and how opinions and views changed over the years.
I think that polling data gives breadth while interviews like this give more depth. It’s best for us to use both of these methods to bridge understanding. When Americans hear polling data that shows opposition to American policies among Europeans, the potential for misunderstanding is huge. Documentaries that give a cross section of opinions, or even those that explore only one sided opinions, can still fill in the blanks for Americans to better understand WHY Europeans feel as they do.
Well, I don’t want to discourage you, takhallus. After all, it’s encouraging that somebody cares for the opinions of europeans, and it’s only sad the budget will limit the scope of the project. Good luck!
“I think that polling data gives breadth while interviews like this give more depth.”
Indeed. Combining both would give a much clearer picture of the range of opinions and the way of thinking behind them. This would really be a great documentary!
M Takhallus: My first sentence was ‘Uh-oh, this kind of codewording augurs not well.’ That is not drawing a conclusion, merely stating it does not bode well for a balanced view of the subject.
Lynx: ‘he so-called “clash of civilizationsâ€? may be low on their list, but if you change the subject to “immigrationâ€? you might find the rank goes up rather quickly’
Exactly my point. Note the diff in the brief hyperbolic coinage vs. your longer definition. It’s the need for sound bites in this nation full of speed addicted morons that leads to hysteria. Recall the orange-red-candy colored alert system?
MVDG: ‘This is not about enforcing an opinion… it’s about asking people their opinion.’
I agree w Gray, that the phrase clash of civilizations is already coded one way, just like asking id one supports ‘Godless Communism.’ It’s true that Coms were Godless, but the way the thing is phrased is as imp as the query.
Gray: ‘If you use only the “interviews with people of strong opinionsâ€?, you present a distorted picture.’
This is true since the world is full of Homer Simpsons. I laugh when I hear how ‘religious’ the USA is, because most are religious in name only. Most old line denopms are dying, but people all claim to be religious. Most docs speak to the dumbest or smartest people, which leaves out 99% in the middle.
Then again, people loathe watching themselves, on camera or in a mirror, so it sells.
Uh, not exactly what I meant, Gray. You couldn’t possibly poll thousands of people and ask in depth questions. Even if you had the time and funding for that, you’d end up with a film that was either too long for people to watch or it would have to be severely edited anyway. My point was that polls are done and that gives us one type of information, and then projects like this give us a different type of information.
“Uh, not exactly what I meant, Gray. You couldn’t possibly poll thousands of people and ask in depth questions.”
Hmm?
“I think that polling data gives breadth while interviews like this give more depth.�
Now would you pls make your mind up, CS?
Besides, I think you don’t need many question to get the general view of Islam in Europe. And this would provide a helpful control instrument so that the movie doesn’t end up with showing too many outsider opinions. Hell, I’m sure there are already published poll results that could be used, especially after the cartoon controversy.
Gray,
Not a matter of making up my mind, but I guess it’s a matter of clarifying for you. I’m agreeing with you that polls are important but I don’t think that approach has to be combined with the interview approach. I think the two can be done separately and then the audience can process the two types of information.
My point is that polling data is one type of information and should be done on a broad, randomly selected sample. That gives us one form of information.
Interviews go into more depth with a much smaller population sample which doesn’t have to be randomly selected to be useful. This gives a different type of information.
These two different forms of information are both useful. The recipients of this information then use their brain capacity to process it, and (hopefully) they understand that each form has its limitations, but when taken together they give us more clarity than either form could on its own.
I see your point, CS, but imho you’re vastly overestimating the ability of US citizen to process two informations that are given on different channels at different times. Nothing in my experience after five y
????
Oh, verfickte scheisse, I hate this comment software…
