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	<title>Comments on: Here We Go Again</title>
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		<title>By: Kim Ritter</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43990</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Ritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 03:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43990</guid>
		<description>C Prez- Yes, I remember those days well! He never lived up to his promise, but thought that after he was traded that his performance perked up! That seems to be part of the Washington quarterback syndrome, lol, as they never seem to be able to get a good one who lasts more than one season, and have had many who were replaced midseason. Shuler seems like a decent guy- but very conservative for the Democrats!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>C Prez- Yes, I remember those days well! He never lived up to his promise, but thought that after he was traded that his performance perked up! That seems to be part of the Washington quarterback syndrome, lol, as they never seem to be able to get a good one who lasts more than one season, and have had many who were replaced midseason. Shuler seems like a decent guy- but very conservative for the Democrats!</p>
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		<title>By: GreenDreams</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43935</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenDreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 21:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43935</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Motive&lt;/a&gt;

According to official U.S. government sources, the September 11th attacks were consistent with the mission statement of al-Qaeda. The overarching motivation for the present al-Qaeda campaign was set out in a 1998 fatwa issued by Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Abu-Yasir Rifa&#039;i Ahmad Taha, Shaykh Mir Hamzah, and the (Amir of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh, Fazlur Rahman).[53]

The fatwa lists three &quot;crimes and sins&quot; committed by the Americans:

    * U.S. military occupation of the Arabian Peninsula.
    * U.S. aggression against the Iraqi people.
    * U.S. support of Israel.

The fatwa states that the United States:

    * Plunders the resources of the Arabian Peninsula.
    * Dictates policy to the rulers of those countries.
    * Supports abusive regimes and monarchies in the Middle East, thereby oppressing their people.
    * Has military bases and installations upon the Arabian Peninsula, which violates the Muslim holy land, in order to threaten neighboring Muslim countries.
    * Intends thereby to create disunion between Muslim states, thus weakening them as a political force.
    * Supports Israel, and wishes to divert international attention from (and tacitly maintain) the occupation of Palestine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks" rel="nofollow">Motive</a></p>
<p>According to official U.S. government sources, the September 11th attacks were consistent with the mission statement of al-Qaeda. The overarching motivation for the present al-Qaeda campaign was set out in a 1998 fatwa issued by Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Abu-Yasir Rifa&#8217;i Ahmad Taha, Shaykh Mir Hamzah, and the (Amir of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh, Fazlur Rahman).[53]</p>
<p>The fatwa lists three &#8220;crimes and sins&#8221; committed by the Americans:</p>
<p>    * U.S. military occupation of the Arabian Peninsula.<br />
    * U.S. aggression against the Iraqi people.<br />
    * U.S. support of Israel.</p>
<p>The fatwa states that the United States:</p>
<p>    * Plunders the resources of the Arabian Peninsula.<br />
    * Dictates policy to the rulers of those countries.<br />
    * Supports abusive regimes and monarchies in the Middle East, thereby oppressing their people.<br />
    * Has military bases and installations upon the Arabian Peninsula, which violates the Muslim holy land, in order to threaten neighboring Muslim countries.<br />
    * Intends thereby to create disunion between Muslim states, thus weakening them as a political force.<br />
    * Supports Israel, and wishes to divert international attention from (and tacitly maintain) the occupation of Palestine.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck Prez</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43930</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Prez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 21:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43930</guid>
		<description>Hopefully Shuler does a better job in Washington than he did quarterbacking my R*dskins, that&#039;s for sure!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hopefully Shuler does a better job in Washington than he did quarterbacking my R*dskins, that&#8217;s for sure!</p>
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		<title>By: Scott_api</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43927</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott_api</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 20:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43927</guid>
		<description>If Al Queda&#039;s long term goal #1 is the US Out of Iraq, what was their Long term Goal #1 in February of 2002 when we were not in Iraq?  Was it trying to find more airplanes to hijack?  Does sending 130,000 (+/-) troops and $400 Billion to Iraq change that goal for them?  Does pulling 130,000 (+/-) troops out of Iraq change that goal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Al Queda&#8217;s long term goal #1 is the US Out of Iraq, what was their Long term Goal #1 in February of 2002 when we were not in Iraq?  Was it trying to find more airplanes to hijack?  Does sending 130,000 (+/-) troops and $400 Billion to Iraq change that goal for them?  Does pulling 130,000 (+/-) troops out of Iraq change that goal?</p>
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		<title>By: Kim Ritter</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43924</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Ritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 20:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43924</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never been one to accuse our government of acting like fascists, but they have used - conciously or unconciously- authoritarian tactics on their own people, haven&#039;t they? John Dean&#039;s book &quot;Conservatives Without Conscience&quot; gives a good description of this trend.

If Democrats were so bent on driving out moderates would they have enlisted candidates like Heath Shuler, Tester, Jim Webb or Bob Casey to run for office? The party now has a large wing - the Blue Dogs that don&#039;t subscribe to liberal orthodoxy. Another sign of the influence of moderates is their election of moderate Steny Hoyer in the House over anti-war Jack Murtha.  

Lieberman was actually closer to Bush&#039;s position on the war than many Republicans. He urged his Democratic colleagues to be more loyal to Bush in a time of war- which was extremely annoying. One of his first decisions since the election was to drop the subpoena for WH records during Katrina. So, he has some issues of loyalty of his own.

And Club for Growth &lt;strong&gt;has &lt;/strong&gt;run conservative GOP candidates in primaries in an attempt to defeat Republican moderates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never been one to accuse our government of acting like fascists, but they have used &#8211; conciously or unconciously- authoritarian tactics on their own people, haven&#8217;t they? John Dean&#8217;s book &#8220;Conservatives Without Conscience&#8221; gives a good description of this trend.</p>
<p>If Democrats were so bent on driving out moderates would they have enlisted candidates like Heath Shuler, Tester, Jim Webb or Bob Casey to run for office? The party now has a large wing &#8211; the Blue Dogs that don&#8217;t subscribe to liberal orthodoxy. Another sign of the influence of moderates is their election of moderate Steny Hoyer in the House over anti-war Jack Murtha.  </p>
<p>Lieberman was actually closer to Bush&#8217;s position on the war than many Republicans. He urged his Democratic colleagues to be more loyal to Bush in a time of war- which was extremely annoying. One of his first decisions since the election was to drop the subpoena for WH records during Katrina. So, he has some issues of loyalty of his own.</p>
<p>And Club for Growth <strong>has </strong>run conservative GOP candidates in primaries in an attempt to defeat Republican moderates.</p>
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		<title>By: GreenDreams</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43894</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenDreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:56:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43894</guid>
		<description>Wow. Great quote, Jason S. Here are a few more:

â€œOur government has kept us in a perpetual state of fearâ€”kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervorâ€”with the cry of grave national emergency. Always there has been some terrible evil at home or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it by furnishing the exorbitant funds demanded. Yet, in retrospect, these disasters seem never to have happened, seem never to have been quite real.â€?
â€”General Douglas MacArthur

The worst crimes were dared by a few, willed by more and tolerated by all.
~Tacitus

Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public officialâ€¦
~Theodore Roosevelt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. Great quote, Jason S. Here are a few more:</p>
<p>â€œOur government has kept us in a perpetual state of fearâ€”kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervorâ€”with the cry of grave national emergency. Always there has been some terrible evil at home or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it by furnishing the exorbitant funds demanded. Yet, in retrospect, these disasters seem never to have happened, seem never to have been quite real.â€?<br />
â€”General Douglas MacArthur</p>
<p>The worst crimes were dared by a few, willed by more and tolerated by all.<br />
~Tacitus</p>
<p>Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public officialâ€¦<br />
~Theodore Roosevelt</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Shapiro</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43871</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Shapiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43871</guid>
		<description>&quot;Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to do the bidding of the leaders. That is easy, all you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.â€? JOSEPH  GOEBBELS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to do the bidding of the leaders. That is easy, all you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.â€? JOSEPH  GOEBBELS</p>
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		<title>By: GreenDreams</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43870</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenDreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43870</guid>
		<description>Hey, Pat, Jason and Marc. I&#039;m with you. The Repub noise machine, the rightist blogs, Bush/Cheney and you guys are doing exactly what I want to see right now: alienating voters with rabid claims of hurting our troops and treason (not you guys specifically. I mean Bill O, Coulter et al. You just wish dissenters --uh, that would be the majority of Americans--would just shut up.) 

Your team, and you&#039;re free to disagree, has maligned patriots and even crippled and decorated war veterans and now many thousands of families who have made the ultimate sacrifice of their sons&#039; life or limb. Your side continues to equate disagreement with &quot;the Deceiver&quot; is unpatriotic, and the less people believe in Bush, and the more you guys continue to trumpet their divisive hate speech, the farther down your party is going to fall.

This is utterly reprehensible, and if this is what the GOP stands for now, may it go down in flaming, ignoble and total defeat, for as long as this hateful screed rules your party.

You don&#039;t see the damage this has done to your party. Some of my friends were among your top donors. No more. Now they&#039;re saying &quot;I have no party&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Pat, Jason and Marc. I&#8217;m with you. The Repub noise machine, the rightist blogs, Bush/Cheney and you guys are doing exactly what I want to see right now: alienating voters with rabid claims of hurting our troops and treason (not you guys specifically. I mean Bill O, Coulter et al. You just wish dissenters &#8211;uh, that would be the majority of Americans&#8211;would just shut up.) </p>
<p>Your team, and you&#8217;re free to disagree, has maligned patriots and even crippled and decorated war veterans and now many thousands of families who have made the ultimate sacrifice of their sons&#8217; life or limb. Your side continues to equate disagreement with &#8220;the Deceiver&#8221; is unpatriotic, and the less people believe in Bush, and the more you guys continue to trumpet their divisive hate speech, the farther down your party is going to fall.</p>
<p>This is utterly reprehensible, and if this is what the GOP stands for now, may it go down in flaming, ignoble and total defeat, for as long as this hateful screed rules your party.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t see the damage this has done to your party. Some of my friends were among your top donors. No more. Now they&#8217;re saying &#8220;I have no party&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Davebo</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43845</link>
		<dc:creator>Davebo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43845</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;After all, it was the Democratic Party that made by far the most vigorous effort to purge internal dissent (Joe Lieberman)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

As usual, Jason is still in denial.

The Democrats tried to purge Joe Lieberman.  By sending Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Barbara Boxer, Mary Landriau, and a host of others to CT to campaign on his behalf.

Now, what Jason wanted, was for all of those people to continue to campaign for Lieberman after he lost the Democratic Primary.

Sort of like how Jason kept campaigning for John McCain after he lost the GOP primary in 2000.

You did do that right Jason?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>After all, it was the Democratic Party that made by far the most vigorous effort to purge internal dissent (Joe Lieberman)</p></blockquote>
<p>As usual, Jason is still in denial.</p>
<p>The Democrats tried to purge Joe Lieberman.  By sending Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Barbara Boxer, Mary Landriau, and a host of others to CT to campaign on his behalf.</p>
<p>Now, what Jason wanted, was for all of those people to continue to campaign for Lieberman after he lost the Democratic Primary.</p>
<p>Sort of like how Jason kept campaigning for John McCain after he lost the GOP primary in 2000.</p>
<p>You did do that right Jason?</p>
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		<title>By: BeYourGuest</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43843</link>
		<dc:creator>BeYourGuest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43843</guid>
		<description>PatHMV--

I&#039;d prefer to keep the goalposts where Jason placed them. To that end, here&#039;s a quote from Jason:&lt;blockquote&gt;After all, it was the Democratic Party that made by far the most vigorous effort to purge internal dissent&lt;/blockquote&gt;

His single example of this was Joe Lieberman. Didn&#039;t the &quot;official&quot; Democratic Party support Lieberman until he lost the Democratic primary, at which point he he was no longer the &quot;official&quot; Democratic candidate? 

By the way, the netroots, or whatever group that preferred Ned Lamont to Lieberman, is not the Democratic Party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PatHMV&#8211;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d prefer to keep the goalposts where Jason placed them. To that end, here&#8217;s a quote from Jason:<br />
<blockquote>After all, it was the Democratic Party that made by far the most vigorous effort to purge internal dissent</p></blockquote>
<p>His single example of this was Joe Lieberman. Didn&#8217;t the &#8220;official&#8221; Democratic Party support Lieberman until he lost the Democratic primary, at which point he he was no longer the &#8220;official&#8221; Democratic candidate? </p>
<p>By the way, the netroots, or whatever group that preferred Ned Lamont to Lieberman, is not the Democratic Party.</p>
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		<title>By: PatHMV</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43835</link>
		<dc:creator>PatHMV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43835</guid>
		<description>Be Your Guest... I never saw Jason say that Republicans were &quot;never&quot; subject to attacks from more conservatives, just that the Democrats, on the whole, did it more. Finding a handful of examples does not itself refute Jason&#039;s point.

I would also point out that your examples aren&#039;t all that hot. The Club for Growth is not the Republican Party. The official Republican Party entities supported Lincoln Chaffee and Arlen Specter (and I presume Schwarz, but I didn&#039;t follow that race that closely). And Chaffee and Specter won their primaries, in the end.

Meanwhile, the currently leading Republican presidential candidates are John McCain (no arch-conservative) and Rudy Giuliani, both of whom had prominent speaking roles at the last GOP national convention. Can you name the last anti-gay-marriage, pro-life Democrat to be given a prominent speaking role at their national convention?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Be Your Guest&#8230; I never saw Jason say that Republicans were &#8220;never&#8221; subject to attacks from more conservatives, just that the Democrats, on the whole, did it more. Finding a handful of examples does not itself refute Jason&#8217;s point.</p>
<p>I would also point out that your examples aren&#8217;t all that hot. The Club for Growth is not the Republican Party. The official Republican Party entities supported Lincoln Chaffee and Arlen Specter (and I presume Schwarz, but I didn&#8217;t follow that race that closely). And Chaffee and Specter won their primaries, in the end.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, the currently leading Republican presidential candidates are John McCain (no arch-conservative) and Rudy Giuliani, both of whom had prominent speaking roles at the last GOP national convention. Can you name the last anti-gay-marriage, pro-life Democrat to be given a prominent speaking role at their national convention?</p>
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		<title>By: BeYourGuest</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43826</link>
		<dc:creator>BeYourGuest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43826</guid>
		<description>The Hotline link for the above comment is--please let it work!!-&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/08/post_49.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;HERE&lt;/A&gt;.

The National Review link--maybe?--is &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.nationalreview.com/moore/moore200404150838.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;HERE&lt;/A&gt;. 

If it were possible to preview comments, I might fix my mistakes before posting them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Hotline link for the above comment is&#8211;please let it work!!-<a HREF="http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/08/post_49.html" rel="nofollow">HERE</a>.</p>
<p>The National Review link&#8211;maybe?&#8211;is <a HREF="http://www.nationalreview.com/moore/moore200404150838.asp" rel="nofollow">HERE</a>. </p>
<p>If it were possible to preview comments, I might fix my mistakes before posting them.</p>
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		<title>By: BeYourGuest</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43825</link>
		<dc:creator>BeYourGuest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43825</guid>
		<description>Jason--

It&#039;s more than just an assertion that moderate Republicans are subject to challenges by more conservative elements of the Republican Party. &lt;em&gt;It&#039;s a completely true fact.&lt;/em&gt; Anyone with an internet connection can look it up. 

For example, moderate Republican congressman Joe Schwartz of Michigan was defeated in a primary by a candidate backed by the Club for Growth. (Hotline link &lt;A HREF=&quot;http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/08/post_49.html
&quot;&gt;HERE&lt;/A&gt;.)

Republican senator Lincoln Caffee was challenged in his most recent primary election, also by a candidate supported by the Club for Growth.(Townhall link &lt;a HREF=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;HERE&lt;/A&gt;.)

And in the 2004 elections, Republican senator Arlen Specter also had a primary challenger supported by the Club for Growth. (A link from National Review complaining about &lt;em&gt;Rick Santorum&#039;s&lt;/em&gt; support for Specter is &lt;A&gt;HERE&lt;/A&gt;.)

You&#039;re entitled to your own opinion, Jason. &lt;em&gt;But you are not entitled to your own facts.&lt;/em&gt; 

Don&#039;t you care about your own credibility?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason&#8211;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s more than just an assertion that moderate Republicans are subject to challenges by more conservative elements of the Republican Party. <em>It&#8217;s a completely true fact.</em> Anyone with an internet connection can look it up. </p>
<p>For example, moderate Republican congressman Joe Schwartz of Michigan was defeated in a primary by a candidate backed by the Club for Growth. (Hotline link <a HREF="http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/08/post_49.html<br />
">HERE</a>.)</p>
<p>Republican senator Lincoln Caffee was challenged in his most recent primary election, also by a candidate supported by the Club for Growth.(Townhall link <a HREF="" rel="nofollow">HERE</a>.)</p>
<p>And in the 2004 elections, Republican senator Arlen Specter also had a primary challenger supported by the Club for Growth. (A link from National Review complaining about <em>Rick Santorum&#8217;s</em> support for Specter is <a>HERE</a>.)</p>
<p>You&#8217;re entitled to your own opinion, Jason. <em>But you are not entitled to your own facts.</em> </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t you care about your own credibility?</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43701</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 06:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43701</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The American Republican Guard has been purging for absolute purity&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Even though it is repeated often and rarely challenged, this seems to me a curious claim.  After all, it was the &lt;em&gt;Democratic&lt;/em&gt; Party that made by far the most vigorous effort to purge internal dissent (Joe Lieberman) while Republican leadership tolerates extremely vigorous dissent from the likes of Hagel and Brownback with ZERO evidence of retribution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The American Republican Guard has been purging for absolute purity</p></blockquote>
<p>Even though it is repeated often and rarely challenged, this seems to me a curious claim.  After all, it was the <em>Democratic</em> Party that made by far the most vigorous effort to purge internal dissent (Joe Lieberman) while Republican leadership tolerates extremely vigorous dissent from the likes of Hagel and Brownback with ZERO evidence of retribution.</p>
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		<title>By: derrick cho</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43700</link>
		<dc:creator>derrick cho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 05:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43700</guid>
		<description>Most of those people you list arre not Republicans.  The American Republican Guard has been purging for absolute purity, capitalism is to be government contracts to the chosen and foreign policy is attacking Iran and Syria because things worked out so well in Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon.   

There may be an effort by those considered Republicans to reclaim the party, but usinmg an analogy the old Republican party is like the Bolsheviks of 1905 and the Bushevik party is rapidly becoming the Bolsheviks of 1935.  Notice the things directly out of Orwell, double plus ungood thoughts are why bad things happen, thus the media destroyed our victory, there are only 2 ways to think about the war, for terrorism or against terrorism, the stripping away of complex semantics.

I consider those who defend the Republican party as now ruled morally eqivalent to those leftists who found rationalizations for the Bolsheviks or those moderates who claimec Uncle Ho ran a basically agricultural reformist arty rather than a movement tightly bound to Comintern.

And purging the impure is a part of the movement.  This is logically were it&#039;s heading.  Hopefully we have safeguards built into our system crazed ideas such as millions upon millions of Kluxers in the twenties have been moderated before, but read the comments on the the rightist blogs, Democrats are traitors, vigilante action is justified and Michelle Malkin innocently posting phone numbers and addresses of the ungood.

We have already had people mailing packets of white powder.  These people are thugs.  But then again as Sinclair Lewis wrote: &quot;It can&#039;t happen here.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of those people you list arre not Republicans.  The American Republican Guard has been purging for absolute purity, capitalism is to be government contracts to the chosen and foreign policy is attacking Iran and Syria because things worked out so well in Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon.   </p>
<p>There may be an effort by those considered Republicans to reclaim the party, but usinmg an analogy the old Republican party is like the Bolsheviks of 1905 and the Bushevik party is rapidly becoming the Bolsheviks of 1935.  Notice the things directly out of Orwell, double plus ungood thoughts are why bad things happen, thus the media destroyed our victory, there are only 2 ways to think about the war, for terrorism or against terrorism, the stripping away of complex semantics.</p>
<p>I consider those who defend the Republican party as now ruled morally eqivalent to those leftists who found rationalizations for the Bolsheviks or those moderates who claimec Uncle Ho ran a basically agricultural reformist arty rather than a movement tightly bound to Comintern.</p>
<p>And purging the impure is a part of the movement.  This is logically were it&#8217;s heading.  Hopefully we have safeguards built into our system crazed ideas such as millions upon millions of Kluxers in the twenties have been moderated before, but read the comments on the the rightist blogs, Democrats are traitors, vigilante action is justified and Michelle Malkin innocently posting phone numbers and addresses of the ungood.</p>
<p>We have already had people mailing packets of white powder.  These people are thugs.  But then again as Sinclair Lewis wrote: &#8220;It can&#8217;t happen here.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jim S</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43693</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 04:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43693</guid>
		<description>There is a difference between long term and short term goals. Bin Laden doesn&#039;t simply want us out of that part of the world. He wants the process to cost us blood and treasure. He knows that there is no simple way to achieve what he wants and that we will have to suffer a great deal before his goals are achieved. The Bush administration is helping him meet his goals better than any of their critics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a difference between long term and short term goals. Bin Laden doesn&#8217;t simply want us out of that part of the world. He wants the process to cost us blood and treasure. He knows that there is no simple way to achieve what he wants and that we will have to suffer a great deal before his goals are achieved. The Bush administration is helping him meet his goals better than any of their critics.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim Ritter</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43691</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Ritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 04:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43691</guid>
		<description>How is it that even 1/3 of this country still believes an administration that told us-we were absolutely winning two months ago, that they were absolutely keeping Rumsfeld for the long haul, that the war would be a &quot;cakewalk&quot;, that reconstruction in Iraq would pay for itself with oil revenue, that we&#039;d be greeted as liberators, that the Iraqi army and police forces were making steady progress, that the insurgency was being wiped out, etc. etc. Either they are horrendous planners or just plain out deceptive with the public or both. So we&#039;re supposed to paint targets on the backs of 21,000 more of American&#039;s finest young men and women who have been either detained past the end of their tour of duty or rushed over there before being fully trained, because it might work this time????

I&#039;d say Chuck Hagel has more credibility than Cheney any day. Hagel can look you square in the eye and actually consistently make sense. He has served as a grunt on the ground- while Cheney dodged the draft. No contest there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How is it that even 1/3 of this country still believes an administration that told us-we were absolutely winning two months ago, that they were absolutely keeping Rumsfeld for the long haul, that the war would be a &#8220;cakewalk&#8221;, that reconstruction in Iraq would pay for itself with oil revenue, that we&#8217;d be greeted as liberators, that the Iraqi army and police forces were making steady progress, that the insurgency was being wiped out, etc. etc. Either they are horrendous planners or just plain out deceptive with the public or both. So we&#8217;re supposed to paint targets on the backs of 21,000 more of American&#8217;s finest young men and women who have been either detained past the end of their tour of duty or rushed over there before being fully trained, because it might work this time????</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say Chuck Hagel has more credibility than Cheney any day. Hagel can look you square in the eye and actually consistently make sense. He has served as a grunt on the ground- while Cheney dodged the draft. No contest there.</p>
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		<title>By: PatHMV</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43689</link>
		<dc:creator>PatHMV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 03:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43689</guid>
		<description>Once again, &quot;undercut&quot; refers to the &lt;i&gt;effect&lt;/i&gt;, not the intent. As an example, I believe that there are committed socialists who sincerely believe that socialism will produce a better society than capitalism. I believe they&#039;re very wrong, and that their efforts to bring about socialism will cause a great deal of harm, but I don&#039;t believe that they &lt;i&gt;desire&lt;/i&gt; to harm society.

To return to the topic at hand, yes, I think that having 70% of the American public voicing opposition to the war as it&#039;s going now (and polls are just not very good at telling us how strongly people feel about something, how hardened their opinions are... a couple of weeks of good results from the surge would change those numbers) does in fact undercut the ability of the troops to carry out their mission. It makes it more difficult. It hurts their morale. Talk of withdrawal emboldens our enemies and encourages them to hold on a while longer.

Does that make the people who oppose the war bad people, or unpatriotic? No. Should they all shut up just because of it? I&#039;d kind of like them to, but they have a right to speak out. But the Vice President, and I, are also free to speak out about the &lt;i&gt;effect&lt;/i&gt; we think the strident opposition to the war has on our troops and their mission.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again, &#8220;undercut&#8221; refers to the <i>effect</i>, not the intent. As an example, I believe that there are committed socialists who sincerely believe that socialism will produce a better society than capitalism. I believe they&#8217;re very wrong, and that their efforts to bring about socialism will cause a great deal of harm, but I don&#8217;t believe that they <i>desire</i> to harm society.</p>
<p>To return to the topic at hand, yes, I think that having 70% of the American public voicing opposition to the war as it&#8217;s going now (and polls are just not very good at telling us how strongly people feel about something, how hardened their opinions are&#8230; a couple of weeks of good results from the surge would change those numbers) does in fact undercut the ability of the troops to carry out their mission. It makes it more difficult. It hurts their morale. Talk of withdrawal emboldens our enemies and encourages them to hold on a while longer.</p>
<p>Does that make the people who oppose the war bad people, or unpatriotic? No. Should they all shut up just because of it? I&#8217;d kind of like them to, but they have a right to speak out. But the Vice President, and I, are also free to speak out about the <i>effect</i> we think the strident opposition to the war has on our troops and their mission.</p>
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		<title>By: BeYourGuest</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43687</link>
		<dc:creator>BeYourGuest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 03:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43687</guid>
		<description>PatHMV--

I&#039;m perfectly willing to take you at your word on the long-term goals of al-Queda and bin Laden. But I think the war in Iraq is probably serving their short-term goals: recruitment and distraction. 

By the way, I&#039;m sure you&#039;re familar with polls showing that a majority of Americans are opposed to the war. (ABC News article &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollVault/story?id=2786656&amp;page=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;HERE&lt;/A&gt;.) I imagine you haven&#039;t thought about it this way--but do you really think a majority of Americans are trying to undercut the troops?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PatHMV&#8211;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m perfectly willing to take you at your word on the long-term goals of al-Queda and bin Laden. But I think the war in Iraq is probably serving their short-term goals: recruitment and distraction. </p>
<p>By the way, I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re familar with polls showing that a majority of Americans are opposed to the war. (ABC News article <a HREF="http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollVault/story?id=2786656&amp;page=1" rel="nofollow">HERE</a>.) I imagine you haven&#8217;t thought about it this way&#8211;but do you really think a majority of Americans are trying to undercut the troops?</p>
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		<title>By: Kim Ritter</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10283/here-we-go-again/comment-page-1/#comment-43686</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Ritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 03:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/here-we-go-again/#comment-43686</guid>
		<description>BYG- OSB definitely wanted us to stay in Iraq indefinitely. He knows that the USSR went down in defeat after a long grueling war with the muhajadeen in Afghanistan, and hoped we would get stuck there also. Instead we got stuck in Iraq. When you look at our weakened position in the world and the strain on our military as a result of Iraq, how can that not be a big win for him???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BYG- OSB definitely wanted us to stay in Iraq indefinitely. He knows that the USSR went down in defeat after a long grueling war with the muhajadeen in Afghanistan, and hoped we would get stuck there also. Instead we got stuck in Iraq. When you look at our weakened position in the world and the strain on our military as a result of Iraq, how can that not be a big win for him???</p>
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