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	<title>Comments on: More Iraq</title>
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		<title>By: Kim Ritter</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10272/more-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-43977</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Ritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What occurs to me is that both sects know the war is unpopular here, and that eventually we will pick up and go home. The Sunnis probably fear wholesale genocide once that happens, so will not disarm or give up their allegiance to their militias. The Shiites know it will be easier to govern once we leave, as they can get rid of their opposition and will not have to share oil revenues or political power if they can wait us out. Some would see that as justification for staying there indefinitely-and I&#039;m wondering if that&#039;s Bush&#039;s real plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What occurs to me is that both sects know the war is unpopular here, and that eventually we will pick up and go home. The Sunnis probably fear wholesale genocide once that happens, so will not disarm or give up their allegiance to their militias. The Shiites know it will be easier to govern once we leave, as they can get rid of their opposition and will not have to share oil revenues or political power if they can wait us out. Some would see that as justification for staying there indefinitely-and I&#8217;m wondering if that&#8217;s Bush&#8217;s real plan.</p>
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		<title>By: GreenDreams</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10272/more-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-43635</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenDreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 21:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/more-iraq/#comment-43635</guid>
		<description>{snark on} But finally we&#039;re escalating our battle against Sadr by working with the Iraqi army and police, but both are heavily infiltrated by Sadr&#039;s partisans -- oh, yeah, that&#039;s the majority in this new &quot;democracy&quot;. And we&#039;re getting aggressive with Iran too, so they don&#039;t help the militias fight the Sunnis and Al Qaeda. What? Wait. That&#039;s who attacked us on 911--it&#039;s all coming back to me. We want to get Al Qaeda at all costs. No, we want to protect against the Baathists and Saddam loyalists making trouble for Iran&#039;s allies, the Shia. WTF side are we on? {/snark off} 

Sometimes when watching a football game in which I don&#039;t care who wins, I&#039;ll root for the offense, because it makes the game more exciting. In Iraq, we&#039;re fighting with the defense, whichever side is being attacked. &lt;a href=&quot;http://greendreams.wordpress.com/2006/12/03/the-republicans-lost-iraq/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;One day we fight the Mahdi army, the next day to defend them from the Sunnis&lt;/a&gt;.

Since we&#039;re on the subject of Iraq, I feel compelled to return to a point I&#039;ve made several times. Bush&#039;s crony contractors &lt;a href=&quot;http://greendreams.wordpress.com/2006/12/29/losing-the-trust-of-the-iraqis/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;shortchanged the Iraqi security forces &lt;/a&gt;in order to line their own pockets. Now the president&#039;s plan calls for our own forces to be embedded with the same units operating with antiquated weaponry and poorly armored vehicles. This issue is a time bomb that will detonate under the Republicans plan, unfortunately all too soon, because of unacceptable loss of American lives directly as a result of our own failures in &quot;helping&quot; Iraqi forces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>{snark on} But finally we&#8217;re escalating our battle against Sadr by working with the Iraqi army and police, but both are heavily infiltrated by Sadr&#8217;s partisans &#8212; oh, yeah, that&#8217;s the majority in this new &#8220;democracy&#8221;. And we&#8217;re getting aggressive with Iran too, so they don&#8217;t help the militias fight the Sunnis and Al Qaeda. What? Wait. That&#8217;s who attacked us on 911&#8211;it&#8217;s all coming back to me. We want to get Al Qaeda at all costs. No, we want to protect against the Baathists and Saddam loyalists making trouble for Iran&#8217;s allies, the Shia. WTF side are we on? {/snark off} </p>
<p>Sometimes when watching a football game in which I don&#8217;t care who wins, I&#8217;ll root for the offense, because it makes the game more exciting. In Iraq, we&#8217;re fighting with the defense, whichever side is being attacked. <a href="http://greendreams.wordpress.com/2006/12/03/the-republicans-lost-iraq/" rel="nofollow">One day we fight the Mahdi army, the next day to defend them from the Sunnis</a>.</p>
<p>Since we&#8217;re on the subject of Iraq, I feel compelled to return to a point I&#8217;ve made several times. Bush&#8217;s crony contractors <a href="http://greendreams.wordpress.com/2006/12/29/losing-the-trust-of-the-iraqis/" rel="nofollow">shortchanged the Iraqi security forces </a>in order to line their own pockets. Now the president&#8217;s plan calls for our own forces to be embedded with the same units operating with antiquated weaponry and poorly armored vehicles. This issue is a time bomb that will detonate under the Republicans plan, unfortunately all too soon, because of unacceptable loss of American lives directly as a result of our own failures in &#8220;helping&#8221; Iraqi forces.</p>
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		<title>By: Mikkel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10272/more-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-43600</link>
		<dc:creator>Mikkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/more-iraq/#comment-43600</guid>
		<description>I posted this in another thread on semi accident:
I find this quote from the link telling and fear it perfectly sums up the situation: â€œThis man who had spent the last three years fighting the Americans was now willing to talk to them, not because he wanted to make peace but because he saw the Americans as the lesser of two evils.â€?

None of the groups (many of which form the government donâ€™t forget) seem interested at genuine peace, only in an ebb and flow of violence in trying to gain the upper hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted this in another thread on semi accident:<br />
I find this quote from the link telling and fear it perfectly sums up the situation: â€œThis man who had spent the last three years fighting the Americans was now willing to talk to them, not because he wanted to make peace but because he saw the Americans as the lesser of two evils.â€?</p>
<p>None of the groups (many of which form the government donâ€™t forget) seem interested at genuine peace, only in an ebb and flow of violence in trying to gain the upper hand.</p>
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		<title>By: derrick cho</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/10272/more-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-43580</link>
		<dc:creator>derrick cho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/more-iraq/#comment-43580</guid>
		<description>It is incorrect to say that the Sunnis can not win this battle.  Those in Baghdad will have a hell of a time, but the Sunni&#039;s have the martial traditions, if the Americans leave they will be geetting huge sums from the Saudis and others and our future interventins will likely be againt the Iranian allied Iraqi government.

If e stay we probably get to fight both sides sooner or later with our logistics and all sorts of other key points stick in the middle of enemy territory.  Dien Bien Phu seemed impossible not much earlier.

The jihadist never had concerns about dead Sunni.  They are revolutiionaries of the absolutist model.  It has been no secret that they wish to explode Iraq into religious war which wil bring in the Sunni nations in a cleansing war against Shia and subject the corrupt governments of Sunni nations to revolutionary forces.

Their primary desire is not and has never been to nuke New York with it&#039;s reputation of lots of  Jews (which is why Republicans and radical Muslims so hate it,) but to take over the middle east and the Islamic vastness, to position it as an empire, an empire based on purity of sdoul in which all secular humanism (something associated with Jews) is eliminated, something along the line of utopia as pictured by Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Bill Bennett and other stalwarts of the Republican party.  Major differences being that Islam does not argue that the poor are responsible for their condition and the minimum wage is in opposition to God&#039;s will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is incorrect to say that the Sunnis can not win this battle.  Those in Baghdad will have a hell of a time, but the Sunni&#8217;s have the martial traditions, if the Americans leave they will be geetting huge sums from the Saudis and others and our future interventins will likely be againt the Iranian allied Iraqi government.</p>
<p>If e stay we probably get to fight both sides sooner or later with our logistics and all sorts of other key points stick in the middle of enemy territory.  Dien Bien Phu seemed impossible not much earlier.</p>
<p>The jihadist never had concerns about dead Sunni.  They are revolutiionaries of the absolutist model.  It has been no secret that they wish to explode Iraq into religious war which wil bring in the Sunni nations in a cleansing war against Shia and subject the corrupt governments of Sunni nations to revolutionary forces.</p>
<p>Their primary desire is not and has never been to nuke New York with it&#8217;s reputation of lots of  Jews (which is why Republicans and radical Muslims so hate it,) but to take over the middle east and the Islamic vastness, to position it as an empire, an empire based on purity of sdoul in which all secular humanism (something associated with Jews) is eliminated, something along the line of utopia as pictured by Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Bill Bennett and other stalwarts of the Republican party.  Major differences being that Islam does not argue that the poor are responsible for their condition and the minimum wage is in opposition to God&#8217;s will.</p>
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