America must do her utmost to leave the Iraqis in a viable situation. It’s bad enough that 50-100,000 Iraqis are dead – how many more will be murdered if we leave?

Only when and if it becomes obvious that there is no chance of success can we abandon them. That point hasn’t been reached. On the contrary, the truth is that we haven’t really given it our best effort yet. At no time have we committed anywhere near the number of the troops to Iraq as were in theater during the first Gulf War. If we had we wouldn’t be in this situation now.

The idea that it’s OK to send another few thousand soldiers into the meat grinder so you can “keep hoping” is so repugnant I don’t have words for it.

Go tell the gold-star families how much you need to keep hoping. Maybe they’ll have the right words for you.

Which “peace” are you referring too, either then or now? There wasn’t any real peace in Vietnam and there sure isn’t any in Iraq now.

“Between the signing of the 1973 Paris Peace Accord and late 1974 both antagonists [North & South Vietnam] had been satisfied with minor land-grabbing operations. The North Vietnamese, however, were growing impatient with the Thieu regime, which remained intransigent as to the called-for national reunification. Hanoi also remained wary that the U.S. would, once again, support its former ally if larger operations were undertaken…

By late 1974, the Politburo in Hanoi gave its permission for a limited VPA offensive out of Cambodia into Phuoc Long Province…”
WIKI LINK

Continued offensives by the North finally led to the Fall of Saigon on April 30th.

Lynx, I think you’re onto something. President Bush wants the withdrawal to fall to the next administration so he can save-face and doesn’t have to admit he was wrong. Failing that he’ll take leaving it up to the Dem-controlled Congress to force him, so he can save-face by blaming them for the “failure” of the Iraq war.

From over here in my little ‘ol Red State, I sure looks like the GOP is just waiting for the Dems to force the withdraw from Iraq so they can use it for political gain.

JFK just told me it was all worth it.

I find it hard to appreciate his nuanced understanding of modern-day Iraq and the middle east, of modern day America and our challenges, when his brain is in 5 pieces.

This. Is. Not. The. Cold. War.

…
We dare not forget today that we are the heirs of that first revolution. Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans—born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace, proud of our ancient heritage—and unwilling to witness or permit the slow undoing of those human rights to which this Nation has always been committed, and to which we are committed today at home and around the world.
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
This much we pledge—and more.
To those old allies whose cultural and spiritual origins we share, we pledge the loyalty of faithful friends. United, there is little we cannot do in a host of cooperative ventures. Divided, there is little we can do—for we dare not meet a powerful challenge at odds and split asunder.
To those new States whom we welcome to the ranks of the free, we pledge our word that one form of colonial control shall not have passed away merely to be replaced by a far more iron tyranny. We shall not always expect to find them supporting our view. But we shall always hope to find them strongly supporting their own freedom—and to remember that, in the past, those who foolishly sought power by riding the back of the tiger ended up inside.
To those peoples in the huts and villages across the globe struggling to break the bonds of mass misery, we pledge our best efforts to help them help themselves, for whatever period is required—not because the Communists may be doing it, not because we seek their votes, but because it is right. If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.
…

I have no faith, but I can hope, that time — however much we can gain — will bring different scenarios.

MLK said something beautiful about time and our misconception of it in his Letter from Birmingham Jail.

Such an attitude stems from a tragic misconception of time, from the strangely rational notion that there is something in the very flow of time that will inevitably cure all ills. Actually, time itself is neutral; it can be used either destructively or constructively.

Actually no. Never heard of him. Had to google to find his films, and now I’m surprised to read he made ‘The Italian Job’. Thx for mistaking me for him! I’m feeling flattered.

Yes. For the kurds. After managing successfully to stay out of the struggle, and making their region in comparison an oasis of security and stability, this may be their first mayor mistake. Let’s hope there won’t be a backlash from the other parties because of this.

As for the Sunni and Shiite, I don’t think they’ll like Kurd patrols in their quarters any more than they would welcome troops from the opposite sect. So where’s the big difference?

Your post reeks of desperation.
So now you support Bush because you think you have NO choice.
I have deep concerns for your psyche, when this plan fails which it will without any REAL diplomacy in the region. What will poliman do then?

I’m surprised you posted the following:

If those militias and death squads “belonged� to the Iraqi government, I’d be less inclined to object here — but they don’t. This assumption that Iraqis are deliberately and willfully allowing the murder and mayhem to continue on their streets out of sheer laziness is ludicrous… and dangerous

When the audio from Saddams hanging clearly showed that Al-Sadr’s supporters are at the highest levels of thr Iraqi government security forces.

Please provide some facts to support your assertion that Iraqi government is not working with shiite militants and therefore supporting death squads.