“The anti war screaming so loudly that sane reasoning cant be heard.”
You all but admitted an irrational fear about muslim fanatics taking over all of the world. This isn’t exactly sane reasoning, sorry.

“You are the one that seems to be implying that gosh if we fight a few terrorists then we should be AFRAID that we will make some Muslims mad at us.” I was arguing against waging war against fundamentalists (like the Iran leaders), not against fighting international terrorists (and no, I don’t see Iraqi insurgents as international terrorists). Obviously I should have said this more clearly. YOU are advocating war, without giving a second thought that this will cost the lives of many innocent muslims. All historic experience shows that this would turn even moderate muslims against the US, fuel the fanatics’ movement, and thus lead to an escalation. And your casual observation that this “will make some Muslims mad at us”, when the actual number is about one billion, shows how detached from reality you are regarding this whole topic. I can only conclude that all this talk about the US being a superpower made your brain blow a fuse.

No one is even remotely suggesting that the entire muslim world is evil or that we need to fight the entire Muslim world. YOU sir are the fear monger. You are the one that seems to be implying that gosh if we fight a few terrorists then we should be AFRAID that we will make some Muslims mad at us. You are a fear monger on the other side of the issue. Don’t fight it will be hard. We should be afraid to fight. Be afraid of stirring up the Muslim extremists.

Yeah I like your plan. Hide. Cower and preach fear on the other side. Be afraid to do anything therefore lets do nothing and pretend it does not exist.

And what would be the right strategy to fight growing islamic fundamentalism? Engage fanatics with armed forces or support moderate muslims? By demonizing all of Islam, you actually push the moderates into the arms of the fanatics. This is a terrible approach which will inevitably lead to an escalation of the conflict (you may call that a surge of anti-american muslims, if you prefer that wording). You can’t wage war against more than a billion muslims all around the world. This is a sure way towards desaster.

“Call me a fear monger”

Sure. You’re a fear monger.

Yes. And judging from reasonable reports, Al Quaida still isn’t a major player in Iraq. Their main souce of support is Afghanistan (the Taliban are ont e rise again!) and Pakistan (which all but surrendered its border provinces to the Taliban). Al Quaida is a Sunni organisation. Without further interference from the US, Shia would win the civil war and control over Iraq. Do you think a Shia governement, vehemently opposed to Al Quaida, wouldn’t be a good idea?

Well, isn’t it common knowledge that the US actively tried to undermine several governments all alround the world, especially in South America, through proxies in insurgent groups? Russia is doing the same thing in its sphere of influence. China too. Iran may not be a superpower, but it’s a heavyweight in the Middle East. No surprise it engages in the same dirty plays to enhnce it’s influence. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

You people are so opposed to war period, so opposed to anything a republican or GWB might do that you have put on blinders and just started screaming things like “Surge Bush, Master Bush, Decider Bush, Heir Bush…..and on and on. When all the man is trying to do is somehow try to get us to focus on the reality of this worldwide march to radicalism in the Islamic rule.

It has become so bad that Even China refuses to get involved Because their bordering provinces are full of Muslims, ruled by warlords who the Chinese government has ZERO control over and in fact will not even send troops into the region to try and quell any problems. In fact my Friends son is heading to China next month to teach English to these Muslims after spending 3 years in Jordan. But He is not being hired by the Chinese government he is being hired by a war lord who rules his own province in China………..The war lord is MUSLIM.

People stop with the Bush hating and start doing some research…..this surge is going on all over the world and if left unchecked you think you hate Christians now because we have stood up and said……..um fellas theres a problem here…….wait till you watch country after country fall to these extremists who butcher civilians by the 100,000′s while we sit back and blog about “McDonalds serving coffee that is too hot.”

Call me a fear monger, but I read The Atlantic, Wall Street Journal, US NEWS, Time. I listen to foreign broadcasts from many countries via my shortwave. GWB and company have just done a very bad job of getting this message out because the antiwar is screaming so loudly that nothing they say matters anymore.

GWB promised to go after these radicals wherever they lived and we said okay………..course once he actually did…….we said um wait a minute, we thought you were only kidding.

Again for clarification purposes I was totally opposed to the Iraq invasion but I do understand what he is trying to do.

I think it is worth the investment to try and deny the terrorists a victory.

Oh right. We all forgot about the terrorists again. Those would be the guys in Afghanistan. That would be the country we’ve been begging NATO to send another 20,000 troops to. The country that’s facing a resurgent Taliban and steadily increasing violence. The front that we haven’t screwed up yet.

Now if only we could find 20,000 spare troops.

Do you think the fecklesness and incompetence on display in Iraq encourages or discourages our enemies?

I hope the surge works. The possible consequences of our failure are already obvious.

And aren’t we are risk from Al Quaeda and all of the other freedom fighters, terrorists and copycats around the world, like we are now seeing in Somalia?

Sorry, but this sounds quite irrational to me. Iran is ruled by muslim fundamentalists since Khomeini returned from exile 1979. Well, where are all those Iranian terorists threatening the world?

Wtf is so frightening in letting the Iraqis solve their struggle among themselves?

I am not as concerned about Iraqi’s sorting out the rule of their own country as I am about the exhilaration of the Radical Islamists from imposing their vision as we see them trying in that part of the world.

Me, neither. I don’t want to be too cynical, but I expect that the ethnical cleansing will go on until Sunnis and Shiite live in seperate areas. Maliki will be forced out, and someone close to Sadr will take over. Maybe Saudi Arabia will support the Sunnis, and they manage to get their own small nation (that would be a total economical shipwreck from the start). If not, they will only have the option of keeping their mouth shut and make the best of the situation (not too much sympathy. After all, they were in Power under Saddam for several decades). The Kurds will make a deal for partial autonomy for their region, or they will declare independence. There might be tensions about oil rich Kirkuk, though. This whole process will result in several tenthousand Iraqi deaths. But, thinking of the Yugoslavian example, at least it will result in a stable situation in the long run. Iraqi national unity is already dead imho.

Pls stop beating around the bush. Wtf is so frightening in letting the Iraqis solve their struggle among themselves?

Iraq would stabilize itself. There are more than three Shiite for every Sunni. More probably sooner than later a purely Shiite government will rule. If we like it or not, Shiite ‘radicals’ are the strongest group, they can’t be kept from power forever. And why would this make the world even more “unsafe for hundreds of millions of people” than today? You think Iraqi insurgents will become international terrorists?

I have no practical idea how the Baathists and the Mahdi army would be mollified. Perhaps a solution lies in the giving them a discrete section of land. I don’t know.

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To leave Iraq unstable, and the radicals validated, would make the world unsafe for hundreds of millions of people, and much more expensive to correct in the future.

This is absolutely spot on. Truth of truth and a situation that could not be tolerated and would bode so bad for the free world that the consequences of such irresponsible action would be devastating.

Here in lies the rub. We must make it work………WE MUST.

I opposed the war vehemently. But I support making things right now that we are there…..WE have to………..WE JUST DO.

Wishful thinking. Paul, did you read any reports that suggest that Sunni and Shiite can come along without a violent strongmen à la Saddam ruling them with an iron fist?

Btw, from what I’ve read Al Quaida is a minor factor. The main problem are the Baathists and the Mahdi army. A very strong military presence, about 500000 troops (one soldier for 50 Iraquis), may pacify the country. And then, what? As soon as the occupation force leaves, the artificially dampened tensions will lead to violent struggles again. This problem can’t be solved militarily. And at this point a political solution that depends on national unity has already become unrealistic.