Comments on: On training Iraqis to run their country http://themoderatevoice.com/10151/on-training-iraqis-to-run-their-country/ An Internet hub for moderates, centrists, and independents, with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, and right Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:24:33 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Kim Ritter http://themoderatevoice.com/10151/on-training-iraqis-to-run-their-country/comment-page-1/#comment-42003 Kim Ritter Tue, 09 Jan 2007 11:52:32 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/2007/01/08/uncategorized/on-training-iraqis-to-run-their-country/#comment-42003 Eric-If they're improving so much, why are we sending 20,000 more Americans to Baghdad? Why did only 2 Iraqi units out of 6 show up for Operation Forward Together? Many do not want to leave home, have been armed with outdated weapons, and have been trained without interpreters. The big reason for replacing Casey and Abizaid is that they failed in their basic mission. The administration's conclusion appears to be that they have not stood up, so we must stand up for them. We appear to be going for a secure Baghdad over a democratic one. Eric-If they’re improving so much, why are we sending 20,000 more Americans to Baghdad? Why did only 2 Iraqi units out of 6 show up for Operation Forward Together? Many do not want to leave home, have been armed with outdated weapons, and have been trained without interpreters. The big reason for replacing Casey and Abizaid is that they failed in their basic mission. The administration’s conclusion appears to be that they have not stood up, so we must stand up for them. We appear to be going for a secure Baghdad over a democratic one.

]]> By: Eric http://themoderatevoice.com/10151/on-training-iraqis-to-run-their-country/comment-page-1/#comment-41995 Eric Tue, 09 Jan 2007 08:23:29 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/2007/01/08/uncategorized/on-training-iraqis-to-run-their-country/#comment-41995 The idea that the Iraq military doesn't really benifit by training is absured. Hell even the insurgents were helped. They are much better at it now than when they started. So is it really believable that the Iraq military doesn't improve? The idea that the Iraq military doesn’t really benifit by training is absured. Hell even the insurgents were helped. They are much better at it now than when they started. So is it really believable that the Iraq military doesn’t improve?

]]> By: Kim Ritter http://themoderatevoice.com/10151/on-training-iraqis-to-run-their-country/comment-page-1/#comment-41979 Kim Ritter Tue, 09 Jan 2007 03:58:13 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/2007/01/08/uncategorized/on-training-iraqis-to-run-their-country/#comment-41979 Now it appears the emphasis will be off training the Iraqis, and back to turning Iraq into a police state-with our troops providing the security that the Iraqi army can't or won't. A surge will set us up to stay there for a long-term occupation, and will let the Iraqis blame us for all that goes wrong. There is no way out of this that isn't catastrophic, but for 3 years we heard cheery reports of "steady progress". Cheney and Bush should be held accountable for their poor decision-making, the destruction of a sovereign state, and purposely misleading the nation in the months leading up to and years following their decision to invade Iraq. Now it appears the emphasis will be off training the Iraqis, and back to turning Iraq into a police state-with our troops providing the security that the Iraqi army can’t or won’t. A surge will set us up to stay there for a long-term occupation, and will let the Iraqis blame us for all that goes wrong. There is no way out of this that isn’t catastrophic, but for 3 years we heard cheery reports of “steady progress”. Cheney and Bush should be held accountable for their poor decision-making, the destruction of a sovereign state, and purposely misleading the nation in the months leading up to and years following their decision to invade Iraq.

]]> By: m. takhallus http://themoderatevoice.com/10151/on-training-iraqis-to-run-their-country/comment-page-1/#comment-41972 m. takhallus Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:37:01 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/2007/01/08/uncategorized/on-training-iraqis-to-run-their-country/#comment-41972 Excellent, thought-provoking post. You're right: on what grounds do we assume we're the best people to train the Iraqis? Our guys can call for air support from jets that each cost a third world nation's entire military budget. Excellent, thought-provoking post. You’re right: on what grounds do we assume we’re the best people to train the Iraqis? Our guys can call for air support from jets that each cost a third world nation’s entire military budget.

]]> By: Frank Lynch http://themoderatevoice.com/10151/on-training-iraqis-to-run-their-country/comment-page-1/#comment-41968 Frank Lynch Tue, 09 Jan 2007 01:53:30 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/2007/01/08/uncategorized/on-training-iraqis-to-run-their-country/#comment-41968 This is an excellent post filled with accuracy and moderation despite the emotional charge of the subject matter. You have my respect, sir. The other conflict effectng our national security strains my moderation. The mediaa have been ignoring that our Border Patrol has been shot at almost 800 times in 2006, most recently with full automatic assault rifles. Visit my blog at www.franklynch.wordpress.com if you wish. This is an excellent post filled with accuracy and moderation despite the emotional charge of the subject matter. You have my respect, sir.

The other conflict effectng our national security strains my moderation. The mediaa have been ignoring that our Border Patrol has been shot at almost 800 times in 2006, most recently with full automatic assault rifles. Visit my blog at http://www.franklynch.wordpress.com if you wish.

]]> By: Matt http://themoderatevoice.com/10151/on-training-iraqis-to-run-their-country/comment-page-1/#comment-41967 Matt Tue, 09 Jan 2007 01:48:29 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/2007/01/08/uncategorized/on-training-iraqis-to-run-their-country/#comment-41967 Responding to your assertion that Iraqis had "survived" for a few hundred years... It should be noted that Iraqis have never self-governed... it has either been by a despot or by the British... Perhaps some lessons on self-governance are necessary... Responding to your assertion that Iraqis had “survived” for a few hundred years… It should be noted that Iraqis have never self-governed… it has either been by a despot or by the British… Perhaps some lessons on self-governance are necessary…

]]> By: GreenDreams http://themoderatevoice.com/10151/on-training-iraqis-to-run-their-country/comment-page-1/#comment-41962 GreenDreams Tue, 09 Jan 2007 00:52:08 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/2007/01/08/uncategorized/on-training-iraqis-to-run-their-country/#comment-41962 Good post Brij. As frustrated as we may be with Maliki, it was our idea to establish a democracy there, and after all, even Americans can elect incompetent, self-serving and disingenuous 'leaders'. In fact, before we rail too hard about Maliki's duplicity look at what Bush cronyism has done to the ability of Iraqi forces to "stand up" as we "stand down." American taxpayers paid to equip those forces with quality weapons but Bush's crony contractors rip off the taxpayer instead and pocket the cash. <blockquote>American contractors who won bids to supply the Iraqi army are giving us only “antiquated weapons produced in Eastern Europe.â€? The contractors get this Soviet-era garbage at rock-bottom prices, as Eastern European countries that just joined the European Union scramble to modernize their armies. “This allows them to pocket what’s left over from the massive appropriations set aside to modernize the Iraqi army.â€? Our troops, then, wield “scrap metalâ€? for weapons, while the resistance, the militias, and the jihadists are better armed even than coalition troops. Baghdad’s Basaer News No wonder ordinary Iraqis are taking the side of the resistance, said Baghdad’s Azzaman. American policy seems designed to humiliate us. “American soldiers are viewed as thieves, gangsters, and thugs who have come to rape and molest women and girls, abuse prisoners, and destroy cities.â€? Iraqis now cheer the victories of the resistance rather than those of the would-be liberators.</blockquote> Good post Brij. As frustrated as we may be with Maliki, it was our idea to establish a democracy there, and after all, even Americans can elect incompetent, self-serving and disingenuous ‘leaders’. In fact, before we rail too hard about Maliki’s duplicity look at what Bush cronyism has done to the ability of Iraqi forces to “stand up” as we “stand down.” American taxpayers paid to equip those forces with quality weapons but Bush’s crony contractors rip off the taxpayer instead and pocket the cash.

American contractors who won bids to supply the Iraqi army are giving us only “antiquated weapons produced in Eastern Europe.� The contractors get this Soviet-era garbage at rock-bottom prices, as Eastern European countries that just joined the European Union scramble to modernize their armies. “This allows them to pocket what’s left over from the massive appropriations set aside to modernize the Iraqi army.� Our troops, then, wield “scrap metal� for weapons, while the resistance, the militias, and the jihadists are better armed even than coalition troops. Baghdad’s Basaer News

No wonder ordinary Iraqis are taking the side of the resistance, said Baghdad’s Azzaman. American policy seems designed to humiliate us. “American soldiers are viewed as thieves, gangsters, and thugs who have come to rape and molest women and girls, abuse prisoners, and destroy cities.� Iraqis now cheer the victories of the resistance rather than those of the would-be liberators.

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